This artificial turf business is cut-throat, as evidenced by the following email I received concerning my story on the Fargodome proposing replacement turf earlier this week.
I have to wonder if the vice president didn’t read the sentence correctly. Almost anything these days is “significantly cushier” than the current dome turf. The new line of Astro Turf that is proposed for the dome does have infill product in it, so I take that to be similar to Fieldturf. I did not write “better.” Similar can mean not as good but approaching the technology.
It should be noted that Fieldturf did not submit a bid for the project because, from I am told, it does not have the roll-out technology that the Fargodome needs to turn events around quick.
Jeff,
I wanted to let you know that we take great exception to your comment that “Both are considered significantly cushier than the current turf and similar to the popular FieldTurf that stadiums have installed across the countryâ€. Attached is scientific evidence that Astroturf’s systems are NOT “cushy†at all.
It is also important to note that NFL Players rank FieldTurf as the best artificial surface, and Astroturf as the worst: http://www.fieldturf.com/artificial-turf-news/nfl-players-rank-fieldturf-as-best-artificial-surface/
Regards,
Darren Gill
Vice President, Global Marketing
So what is he saying? The new turf that has been priced for the FargoDome has a infill like FieldTurf instead of a thin foam pad like the current turf. I notice he didn’t offer a product he sells that would fit the need at the FargoDome. How does the St. Louis Rams (Edward Jones Dome) turf rank in the NFL? Isn’t the new FargoDome turf supposed to be similar to the Rams turf?
I see the turf the Colts play on in Indianapolis is the top ranked turf by the players. Well that stadium isn’t just for football, doesn’t the turf there have to be taken up for different events? Couldn’t the FargoDome install that? I think the Dome should get the best product possible. I know that Fieldturf has really taken over on football fields like tartan surface did on basketball courts in the 1980′s.
Bison Fan – The St. Louis Rams field ranked 9th out 12.
BisonJeff – The Colts simply cover their surface when they have any non-sporting events at their facility. This is what pretty much every facility in the world does. Very few have removable systems anymore. One of the busiest facilities in the world is New Meadowlands Stadium and they have a permanent FieldTurf surface with a cover.
It should be noted that a permanent system would cost about $550,000 and a field cover about $600,000. That combined total ($1,150,000) is significantly less than the $2.7 million or $2.85 million being offered.
Jeff failed to attach the document that I provided him showing that Astroturf is not “cushy” as described. Feel free to email me directly if you would like a copy.
Regards,
Darren
Who said astroturf was cushy?
Jeff just said that the Astro Turf infill system would be cushier than the current Magic Carpet. I’ve played on the Magic Carpet, and I think that statement would be true about any infill system.
Exactly my point. I’ve also played on the Magic Carpet, and although fast as h*ll, it is not forgiving.
Thanks for the info Darren I appreciate it.
when i was a kid, we played on broken glass and had to move the ball uphill both ways.
Turf smurf.
Don’t laugh, not that many years ago Belfield had hauled “topsoil” onto their field to fix up low spots and get better grass. Problem was, they hauled the stuff from old manure piles. There was old machinery parts, I remember picking up an old rake tooth off the field before a game. It’s been fixed since then, they have a pretty nice grass field now.
Whoever designed the Fargodome as stupidly as it was deserves all the credit for why it’s one of the only primarily-football facilities in the world that can’t use a permanent field install.
They designed the place so that part of the north end zone stands could “detach” and then be wheeled down to the south end zone to form an ice rink/bball court area. Stupid.
All other stadiums simply have a portable/modular riser that is constructed on top of the field where needed.
Stupid. Stupid.
If you’re going to have a field that can be “removed” from the stadium, then the correct way to do it is how the Arizona Cardinals stadium did it. The field sits in a giant tray that is simply rolled out of the stadium when the floor space is needed.
Yeah lets put the field on a tray like University of Phoenix Stadium, thats a STUPID design in ND. Remember Phoenix doesn’t get snow, ice, rain, etc… part of the reason its on a tray also is because its a NATURAL GRASS field and thats not going to move very easy and they roll it out to water and sun the grass
You could just as easily put the fieldturf in the tray and it would be easy and fast to roll that out of the way of the floor. Can you guess how many guys it takes to do that? One guy: to push a button. Can’t get much easier than that.
And it would not need to roll outside, it could simply slide into an excavated slot underground. Yes I know, it would be very expensive, blah blah blah. Save it. I am not proposing the Fargodome do this.
My point was just that the way the Fargodome did it was as stupid as you can do. There are better ways.
Darren aka Poor design of Fargodome must have a few screws loose. You are being very unprofessional. I wouldn’t want your product simply because I would have to deal with you personally.
It is still stupid we have to seek sponsorship to replace the turf. Really? We have 30mil in the bank and this costs ~2mil? Get it done.
Thanks for censoring me on here!
mossberg – The comment from “Poor design of Fargodome” was not from me and I do not share the same feelings.
You did imply that the design limits the options, which is true. So essentially, do you do share the same feelings.
So if I get this straight, there was turf available out there costing about $1 million and is the same as the one used by the Colts – considered to be the best turf in the NFL… but instead, the $2.7 million dollar turf which ranks lowest in the NFL was chosen for Fargo Dome.
Someone help me understand this decision…
Does it really??? Do the $1.1 mill and spend the other $1.6 on coloring the seats, or putting NDSU logo on the turf instead of a stupid pinwheel fargodome logo…..are people really not gonna know where they are at ???
Mr. Poor Design: The south stands are mobile, the north stands are fixed. Now you can complain accurately.
can someone explain why the permanent style that is being proposed for just over $1 million is not being considered in the fargodome? are there some issues with the floor or building that won’t allow for that style to work? if it’s the best quality turf and comes with a protective cover wtf are we thinking spending 2.7 million for inferior turf???
The turf that can be rolled up is more expensive and they must be including the cost of modifying the storage bay underneath the north stands in the cost of the turf. I could see where an extra 1.6 mil would be necessary.
The Fargodome cannot have the turf that requires a cover because the south stands wouldn’t be able to move over it. They need to move for basketball and other events.
So unless Mr. Fieldturf has a product that can store easily and be removed quickly his company doesn’t offer anything the dome could use. Astroturf does have that product and an NFL team is using it, that turf is light years better than the crap our players are currently playing on.
I wouldn’t call it poor design, the dome was designed so it could be converted quickly and easily which is for the benefit of the football team.
Then why do no other facilities use such a design? Why don’t the new stadiums with fixed roofs in Detroit, Dallas, Indy, etc. use this?
Because it’s expensive and unnecessary!
The cities of Detroit, Dallas and others can afford to have multiple arenas for different sports or build new ones. In Fargo we can afford one so it has to be multi-purpose. When the FargoDome was built it was one of the first Domes to use a steel roof instead of a fabric roof. People said it was stupid that it wasn’t a real dome. Now all new domes have steel roofs and the old ones have replaced the fabric with steel as well. That is is called progress in technology. Now 23 years (1988) after the plans were drawn up for the Fargodome there is new technolgy for an artificial surface, a permanent field with a cover over it. Just like when you buy a new cell phone and in a month it is obsolete. The FARGODOME IS A GREAT PLACE! So unless you have the $250 million to build a new place with all the latest bells and whistles this new astroturf is what we have. I’d still rather have an improved astroturf and play in the FargoDome than have the Fieldturf which I know is better, and have to play in a much lesser facility or outside! This is just one of those things where it is all about what you feel is more important. But it doesn’t change the facts. Go Bison!
Can’t the movable stands be modified to roll over the permanent turf??? Monster trucks drive over that stuff in other stadiums.
The ability to have hockey in the dome might have been the reason they did the turf the way they did.
Isn’t the possibility to have hockey or any ice event in the dome much reduced with the opening of Scheels Arena? The dome should scrap those events and give its primary tenant the surface it deserves.
Like basically every facility the dome was built for its time. There was no such thing as field turf than, hard to design for something that isn’t even in existence.
I don’t see the problem here anyway, the new turf isn’t exactly terrible. I mean an NFL team is using it after all, we should be happy the existing system can be modified so the dome can use the next gen turf and still have fast and easy setup and tear down.
Who cares. This new turf is dramatically better than our current turf. Is it as good as field turf? Probably not but its much better. If Field turf could design something that would work than we would have points but its a moot point.
We need the turf to look like the Bison turf. Not the Fargodomes. And it needs to be the color of grass.not the Brady Bunch back yard.
Pg from Iowa Wes Wephaun was at NDSU Wed. What ya hearing??
Well if the Fargo dome can save a million on the turf, could they not retrofit the moveable seating to go over the top of this?