The stadium is located off a busy thoroughfare in Normal, Ill., and you can’t argue the location of the Illinois State football facility. It’s about to undergo a much-needed $25 million facelift that will bring it up to Missouri Valley Football Conference standards. As of now, it is the Bison Sports Arena/Western Hall/IUPUI Jungle of the MFVC: a dump.
So when ISU President Al Bowman said in a story by Randy Reinhardt of the Pantagraph newspaper that the school remains committed to seeking Football Bowl Subdivision status someday, it raised a few eyebrows. Bowman called it a “long, long range vision” for the university. Let me further clarify what he probably meant: it’s a long, long, long, long range vision for the school.
There’s nothing wrong with vision. Some NDSU fans had the same reaction when the school announced it was seeking Division I status. But the athletic department also knew in research that it could raise the necessary funding to be above the bottom level of Division I funding. Therein lies the key for ISU: if it someday wants FBS status, you need to have the funding above the bottom level of the division if you want to be successful. We’re talking tens of millions of dollars. We’re also talking this: would affiliation in the MAC, Sun Belt or Conference USA be enough to draw 30,000-plus or whatever fan base is needed at the FBS level?
Or else you will be Western Kentucky, all over again. The Hilltoppers were a stength of Valley football a decade ago, but decided FBS would best fit them. Their program has been nothing short of a disaster. It’s OK to dream someday of the FBS concept, but you better have the funds in place to win or the $25 million ISU is putting into its stadium now will look like chump change to an athletic director trying to balance the books.
As for NDSU someday thinking FBS, never say never but you can forget about it for at least a couple of decades anyway.
Heard Bison are playing Nebraska. Not sure about if that is a good thing.
I think Missouri State moves up before Illinois St does. In either case I hope they both do because that’s the only thing that’ll get the MVC to open it’s doors to NDSU in basketball and the other sports.
Missouri State almost dropped football. There is no way they move up to FBS. They have a better chance of dropping to non-scholarship (Pioneer League) than they do of moving up to FBS. Their program was hanging by a thread before they hired Terry Allen and I don’t think it is on much better footing. They haven’t had much success so the people in the area would rather use the money to improve the basketball team.
NDSU athletic director says he has not talked with Nebraska.
The coaching staff – historically and overall – deserves to be recognized as “FBS” level quality. From Ron Erhardt and others of the 1960s to the present, former NDSU coaches have done very well in making it to the NFL and having long careers there. Hazelton to USC recently is an example, a post he won on merit, but it does not hurt that Kiffin had experience with former NDSU coaches and his mentor (P.Carroll) in Seattle has some on his staff.
Don Morton at Wisconsin?
Do you know the particulars on why Morton left the Badgers? If not put a muzzle on it.
It would be very nice to see NDSU play a top level FBS program to see where they are instead of the FBS doormats they have been playing.
The Bison are 5-2 with the FBS, I think. Not bad and all of them were good games. My question is this: how good does an FBS team have to be to make the moral victory possible?
I defer to the experts.
Jeff is right on the money. In addition NDSU fans have to think about home games if the Bison were FBS. We would naturally get better football from our FBS conference affiliaiton which should have the same impact on the crowd size as moving to the FCS. Also, the OOC games get interesting. Suddenly it might be Iowa State here, or Minnesota, Kansas or Wisconsin? All we need is a stadium to hold the crowds.
Indiana State 44 – Western Kentucky 16
NDSU FCS National Champions
Athletic Budget 2011 at Western Kentucky was $23,243,348 of which $6,437,642 (27% of the Athletic Budget) was in student fees! BTW in the last year Western Kentucky played FCS football the athletic budget stood at $14,577,000.
Athletic Budget 2011 at North Dakota State University was $14,424,439 of which $1,065,759 (7.37% of the Athletic Budget) was in student fees!
Which institution has had the better pay off this year (or the last 4) with its investment in Athletics? Which institution put the financial burden of the move to FBS on the backs of its students?
Indiana State 44 – Western Kentucky 16
NDSU FCS National Champions
Why all the obsession with FBS? Enjoy the 2011 FCS National Championship. When will it ever be enough?
NDSU will never be a Nebraska, Minnesota, or Wisconsin level program, but there is nothing wrong with that.
NDSU’s football program is better than Minnesota’s. Bison have beat them the last two games and dominated but lost the first time they played. Gopher football is an embarrassment.
Thank you for pointing this out. You drive up the student fees and I believe NDSU’s enrollment trend would start heading down from where it is. Lots of Minnesota students come here because it is way cheaper, even for Minnesota students, to come here and receive the same education than it is for them to stay at the U of M. If the increased athletic budget drives up the total cost of attendance until it is comparable to the U of M’s then more students may decide to stay closer to home.
Correct.
NDSU can’t drive up student fees to pay for a move up (like und did) because they would get absolutely shellacked in the court of public opinion. und did it, after publicly (and incorrectly) criticizing NDSU for doing it (the whole “I don’t know how they’re paying for the move to D-I” line of crap).
Nebraska is scared to schedule NDSU, plain and simple. They see what we have done to the last few FBS we’ve played and they don’t want to be added to that list. It would kill their recruiting in Nebraska.
Huh? Then why are they calling us?
They havent been.
I’m confused. They haven’t called to schedule so are we challenging them? I haven’t followed this discussion very close. Fill me in.
Its something SoMEonE on Bisonville started. A littel chatter on a message board and everyone freaks out!
There isnt anything to fill you in on.
Somebody asked a question in a previous post how much more did the Missouri Valley Conference payout to schools last year compared to the Summit League. OK here are a few MVFC schools who are either in the Summit League, Horizon League or Missouri Valley Conference. (This includes all NCAA/Conference payouts…..there is a big difference depending on your home (non-football conference). I will be interested in how much NDSU’s payout goes up with its playoff run this year.
Well….if you look at the USA Today NCAA College Athletics Finance Database (2010)
North Dakota State (Summit League) –
NCAA/conference distributions including all tournament revenues – $82,432.00
South Dakota State (Summit League) –
NCAA/conference distributions including all tournament revenues – $197,728.00
(I think SD State was in the NCAA Playoffs for FCS football that year – that would explain why they made more money than NDSU – just guessing)
Youngstown State University (Horizon League)
NCAA/conference distributions including all tournament revenues – $632,119.00
Missouri State University (Missouri Valley Conference) –
NCAA/conference distributions including all tournament revenues – $968,434.00
Indiana State University (Missouri Valley Conference) –
NCAA/conference distributions including all tournament revenues – $968,434.00
Illinois State University (Missouri Valley Conference) –
NCAA/conference distributions including all tournament revenues – $1,136,638.00
Southern Illinois University (Missouri Valley Conference) –
NCAA/conference distributions including all tournament revenues – $1,136,638.00
BTW – Being in a hockey conference must pay a little bit but not what football pays:
University of North Dakota (WCHA / Great West)
NCAA/conference distributions including all tournament revenues – $105,592.00
WCHA pays out a lot for hockey but it currently only pays out to members who are D1 in either all sports or a certain percentage of sports, I’m not sure. So currently U of M, Wisconisn, and Denver are sharing that money. UND was a year away from getting their share of that money.
Not exactly. The WCHA pays out WCHA generated revenue EVENLY to all members. What you are thinking is the NCAA tournament money, that only gets split up among full D1 members but my understanding is the NCAA only gives each conference a share based on D1 teams in the conference. UND should get a full D1 share of NCAA hockey money next year.
Last post of the evening…..
Please tell me why Ball State plays FBS football? (Or any school in the MAC)
Average Attendance for football at Ball State last year 8,947 (Ranked 120 in FBS – Western Kentucky had attendance of 14,577 ranked 112) NCAA website (NCAA Football Attendance) They would finish in the bottom third of the Missouri Valley Football Conference in attendance. MVFC schools averaged 10,982 in attendance last year.
MAC Conference Payout All-Sports (Remember this is an FBS school) –
NCAA/conference distributions including all tournament revenues -$1,121,868.00 (I am glad they spend all that extra money to get a smaller conference payout than Illinois State and Southern Illinois – FCS Schools – MVC)
Total Athletic Budget in 2010 at Ball State? $20,132,632
of which –
$9,221,400 is in student fees….yes $9 million dollars a year in student fees. Which is 45.8% of the athletic operating budget at Ball State. (USA Today NCAA College Athletics Finance Database)
So yes, anybody can be an FBS school if they decide to tax their students like crazy. Is it really all worth it?
NCAA needs to stop the insanity that is the lower tier (MAC, Sun Belt, WAC) FBS football. It is not serving these institutions or students well.
I posted this earlier, read this study before you say that NDSU is ready for FBS football: http://centerforcollegeaffordability.org/uploads/ICA_Subsidies_RegressiveTax.pdf
The authors found that in some athletic conferences such as the Big 10, the Big 12, and the SEC the cost of intercollegiate athletics to students was less than $200 annually. However, the average cost to students in schools belonging to C-USA was $697; the WAC, $718; the MAC, $915; and the MWC, $1,177 per student per year.
OK, off my soap box……
That was a great post. However, I’m having a tough time concentrating…strangley confused and amazed about the comment that Nebraska is scared to play us.
Give it a rest.
There is absolutely no point, rhyme or reason for NDSU to go into FBS unless it has a guaranteed invitation to a BCS conference (which won’t happen obviously).
Montana ran into a similar issue last year when it was trying to decide on going up or staying at FCS. They have the ideal stadium (25,000 that could easily be expanded again if need be) and a fanatical base that would fill it. However, the cost to join a small time FBS league (IE WAC) would nearly, if not completely, outweigh the gains.
Essentially, the problem now is that we’re basically headed to a format where any school that is not in the BCS will essentially be an FCS school playing in FBS. I wouldn’t be shocked at all if, in the coming years, BCS schools break and form another division. At least in the previous years you could have a solid non-BCS league (the Mountain West), but with the realignment phase, and because I really don’t think the BCS likes having non-BCS leagues participate, they’ve basically plucked those leagues dry. Even if NDSU could join the new MWC-CUSA, within five years they’d basically be back to where they were as an FCS school and have probably spent twice as much in the process. As an alum of a school in the MWC, I’m praying we find a way to get into a BCS league, because the MWC-CUSA is toast.
Stay in the FCS for a while. Compete in a playoff and keep winning national titles. Yes, from an exposure standpoint, the FCS really doesn’t register on a national level. But neither does going to the Beef O’Brady Bowl or Famous Idaho Potato Bowl as a WAC/Sun Belt/MAC champ. Besides, the FCS might include all the non-BCS schools at FBS anyway very soon anyway.
Zach I think the day will come when there will be the Six BCS conferences, and who knows maybe only four, and everyone else will become FCS. I think we gotta hold our ground and wait and see what happens. Let’s say we got in the Big East. Do we really think we would ever be competitive with the elite schools with a chance for a title? Look how good Boise State is and they can’t even get a shot at a BCS title game and they play a weak schedule. If they had to go through the SEC, Big 12, Big 10 or Pac 12 they would never make it to the title game! If we are ever going to really be serious about FBS we need a new stadium and we are talking at least $350 million for an indoor facility that could seat 30 to 40 thousand. Right now we can’t get the last $14 million to finish the basketball arena! Now if you could get Sanford, Microsoft and/or RDO to throw in some serious money maybe it could get done. But right now It seems like a long shot! Go Bison!
NFL Combine starts today and I believe the OL performance day is Saturday, February 25. How will Paul Cornick stack up under the clock and measuring tape? Missouri Valley has a total of two players invited to the 2012 NFL Combine. Besides Cornick, Southern Illinois RB Jewel Hampton has been invited. It gives you an idea of the talent in college football around the country when only two players from the Missouri Valley are invited to the NFL Combine.
Bison are playing Nebraska. surly it is a good things.
thanks for sharing this news ,Jeff Kolpack