Couple thoughts before we dive into the latest topic, disappointing loss for the Bison men’s basketball team tonight against IUPUI. The Jags came in hot I know, but sat in 7th in the league standings, with just two road wins. NDSU played sloppy in the first half, but still had chances to get back into the game, at several points cutting the lead to three. Alex Young got big shots when he needed to and now with the loss, NDSU drops out of the 3 seed. Some may say no big deal, but it totally changes the setup for the Summit League Tournament. As the 3 seed, NDSU would play the 6 seed, which is Southern Utah, a squad NDSU swept during the regular season. If the Bison finish 4th, then it could be Western Illinois, a team NDSU lost to by 4 in Macomb and will wrap up the season with on Saturday. To lock down the 3 seed, NDSU needs some help now, Bison must beat Western Illinois and have Oakland lose at South Dakota. We’ll see, but after the red hot 6-0 start, the Bison are just 11-11 since.
Now onto my favorite topic lately, football scheduling! Idaho State got a healthy payday from Nebraska today to fill out it’s schedule, the Bengals just the latest team to be playing 2 FBS schools in 2012. Now that leads to a school that’s also playing 2 FBS teams in 2012, Northern Iowa. Most that read the blog know of the Panthers financial issues, more details came out Thursday, which you can read here. I had a chance to visit with UNI Athletic Director Troy Dannen earlier this week about a range of topics, everything from playing 2 FBS schools yearly, to how NDSU has affected getting FCS games at home and how much you have to pay for them, and lastly how does NDSU fit into the long-range plans of the Missouri Valley Conference? All that and more, click here. Love to hear some comments after you listen..thanks!
Why wont uni step up and ask missouri valley to accept ndsu as all sports member. it would help them get a rival and increase thier attendence since ndsu actully travels well.
Sure wish our basketball program was as successful as UNI’s. Such high hopes for this year (and every year since Woody put us on the map)…
It was interesting to here that the price for them to bring in another FCS team went up when NDSU came into the league. 200-225K to bring in another team at the FCS level…..didn’t Ball State give us only 250?
This kind of price is what it is going to take to bring in another FCS patsy….or even more. I wouldn’t be surprised if it reaches 300K someday. Teams don’t want to come here and lose.
Basketball teams will be one and done in tourney. Men have not played a complete game since usd at home. Women are just not good. Try and get it together show bison pride.
As for Wichita State and football they had e a 30,000 seat stadium already to go for football.
http://webs.wichita.edu/gs/cessnastadium.html
Before they disbanded football they use to regularly play Utah State, New Mexico State, etc. So the athletic director is right the community will see them as an FBS school.
With that said, in a interview with the president (you can find it online if you search for it) he said he felt if they (WSU) did bring back football they would look at FCS and look at the Missouri Valley Football Conference since most of their MVC rivals are already located in that conference.
As I have said in a number of posts, a rumor I heard a number of times when I was at Indiana State, the biggest threat to the MVC, and greatest opportunity for NDSU is if Big East slits and the non-football schools start their own conference. Creighton would be the first to jump….then the dominos start.
NDSU needs to get itself in a strong position, get a new facility built, get good players, win win win in the Summit, and get NCAA tournament invitations. That will make NDSU an attractive candidate.
Look at conference payouts……MVC pays out better than lower tier FBS conferences. So the conference payout argument is invalid.
Again, when somebody can layout a valid plan to add $10 million dollars a year to the NDSU Athletic budget (which currently stands at around $14 million – so almost doubling the athletic budget) with out raising student fees several millions dollars I would support NDSU’s the move to FBS. But when you already sell out the dome where is all this additional revenue going to come from?
BTW – I should clarify – I do agree with “Forget the MVC” in that I think there will be a lot of shaking out in DI athletics in the next 5 years. So hold on!
If we can get back to where Bison Basketball was in the mid 80s to early 90s, when we averaged 5-6 k fans per game…basketball will be hugely profitable. The NCAA basketball tournament is a new level of exposure
Interesting comments from the UNI AD. I do agree that Mens basketball determines whether NDSU ever gets invited into the Valley. Some have made a notion that it’s better to have a chance at the NCAA tournament in the summit vs. the Valley. I’m not so sure.
Each conference receives money from the tournament based on the number of entrants into the tournament. Last year the Summit received $1.4 Million in revenue sharing. The Missouri Valley received $5.0 Million in revenue sharing. Presumably the conference splits up the money amongst all of the schools.
If this were the case, NDSU likely received $140,000 (if divided by the 10 schools). If NDSU were in the MVC (with expansion to 12 teams) they would have made $416,000.
My point is this. At best the Mens basketball team would win the summit a few times each decade (and get admission to the NCAA tournament). The Missouri Valley often has 2 teams in the conference. It may not be as likely to make the tournament but i would argue that the odds are not that much different. If we count the NIT tournament…. well then our chances of making one fo the post season tourmanents go up a lot.
Take away the admission to the tournament….The money (and the national exposure of being in the league) would likely lead to increased revenue for the school. Based solely on last year if NDSU were in the MVC, they would likely have made hundreds of thousands of dollars more throughout the course of the year. If we also factor in increased revenue due to attendance and nationally televised games at the BSA…..well….. all I hear is CHA-CHING!
15 games × 5945 = 89,175
+2 exhibition games
6 games × 18900 = 113,400
5 games × 18900 = 94,500
Of course football will also have 20k students who get free tickets
So i agree that football has more revenue potential but basketball can make a significant impact. Just think some day when teammakers has a few thousand members for hoops? And dont think selling out all the games is unrealistic. We averaged 5-5 thousand fans 20 years ago.
The years when we get 3 home playoff games are rare
Nice try gabe, but first of all – NDSU is not going to sell out every bball game in the new arena. Not playing teams like UMKC, etc.
Maybe if they played SDSU, UND, Gophers, etc. every night…then maybe. But you know well that isn’t the case.
So there goes the “comparable” attendance.
And even if they did, you’ll never be able to sell bball tickets as high as football tickets. So the comparable attendance does not equate to comparable revenue. Plus when you factor in concession, parking, tailgating revenue – football wins hands down.
Lastly, playoff games are not taken into account because the NCAA takes most of that money.
6 home football games vs. 15 home bball games will never be close in terms of revenue. MBB at best can hope for 1/2 the revenue of football – and that’s probably including a significant payout from the NCAA tournament (if NDSU ever gets into the MVC).
Nice try gabe, but first of all – NDSU is not going to sell out every bball game in the new arena. Not playing teams like UMKC, etc.
Maybe if they played SDSU, UND, Gophers, etc. every night…then maybe. But you know well that isn’t the case.
So there goes the “comparable” attendance.
And even if they did, you’ll never be able to sell bball tickets as high as football tickets. So the comparable attendance does not equate to comparable revenue. Plus when you factor in concession, parking, tailgating revenue – football wins hands down.
Lastly, playoff games are not taken into account because the NCAA takes most of that money.
6 home football games vs. 15 home bball games will never be close in terms of revenue. MBB at best can hope for 1/2 the revenue of football – and that’s probably including a significant payout from the NCAA tournament (if NDSU ever gets into the MVC).
UNI football is in big trouble this year with its scheduling. Wisconsin and Iowa on the road and now Savannah drops the game for Florida State.
Maybe the NCAA needs to allow FCS teams to count one Division II game for playoff eligibility. FBS programs benefit with one game by playing a FCS team, but I really think it hurts FCS teams in their scheduling of home games not to be able to pick up a Division II game that counts for playoffs.
Also, regional DII teams might be able to pull in a higher gate receipt than paying a St. Francis or Lafayette to travel to Fargo. The payout would also be a lot smaller to get a Division II to come to Fargo.
I think thats a good idea. There is a lot of good regional competition for NDSU to open with around here.
No division II teams ever on NDSU’s schedule. A win against a division II school counts the same as no game so why play it.
The Bison need to play one FBS school every year and it needs to continue being one the Bison have a reasonable chance of beating.
NDSU needs to fill its schedule with FCS competition even if they are non-scholarship like the Pioneer League. The NCAA keeps trying to give the Pioneer League an autobid so the schools from the bigger fully funded conferences need to schedule them and pound them to show an autobid is not deserved for the Pioneer League.
Also another point that i forgot to mention…. The common consensus is that FOOTBALL would be the big money maker for NDSU. If comparing FCS football and basketball within the MVC, i’m not so sure that the influx of tournament money every year might end up making the “profit” that the school receives from basketball close to that of football
Great interview. Interesting comments on the Missouri Valley Conference. Looks like we will need to get the SHAC built first and once it’s built we better draw some fans. We probably need to average about 5k fans per game and probably more right off the bat to get their attendance. We can do that because there was a time in the D2 era that we were drawing than we do now. 1982 we a averaged over 6k fans and the population has doubled. Basketball is dramatically underachieving. Build the shac, get better players, win games and make the tournament and we will sell out every game and the MVC will come to us.
If we can’t get a mediocre FCS team to come to Fargo for a 300K payout it makes more sense to bring back the NDSU vs. UND series.
I want 6 home games but if that is not possible than bring back the NDSU/UND series. Double the price of that ticket when you get the home game and NDSU will make up the lost revenue from having 5 home games every other year.
In some ways you are correct, UND is a mediocre FCS team that probably wants $300,000 so take your pick. On the other hand any other school would be better. Taken as a whole a game with UND is bad for NDSU. Its bad for a lot of schools. UMD in now branded by UND as a racist fan base and they have complalined about the UMD students. I dont think NDSU wants to be exposed to that kind of criticism. The way some in the media are they would hop on with both feet too. Its better to leave well enough alone. A UND game/series might look pretty but it is a small pox blanket.
If we travel to Grand Forks every other year, we only get 5 home games every other year and we lose the big money payout of a BCS game. In the process, we guarantee Grand Forks a sellout. It hurts us and helps them. I would have to say that is the worst idea I have heard since the jump to conclusions matt.
Do we want a schedual like montana in 2010 where they missed the playoffs because their strength of schedual? I’d rather have a winnable FBS game that gives us some exposure than some cupcake game against some no-name school. We have to keep pushing our limits within reason.
Montana had 6 D1 wins that year and a D2 game that didnt count. No team in history has gotten in with 6. Had Montana replaced the D2 win with a non scholarship cup cake they would have gotten an at large. They also lost a road game to Cal Poly. Had they replaced that game with a Drake they would have gotten in
Dom and Jeff I would be interested in what NDSU’s NCAA/conference distributions including all tournament revenues are projected to be for next year.
Last reported figures for 2010:
NDSU
NCAA/conference distributions including all tournament revenues – $82,432.00
Northern Iowa
NCAA/conference distributions including all tournament revenues – $1,160,747.00
My question is does the Summit League have no real payout to schools? Is it that a school doesn’t get a conference payout the first couple of years they are in a conference and NDSU is now having a better payout? Does the MVC just have a higher payout to its schools than the Summit League? What kind of payout does a school get for an FCS title run from the NCAA?
Just questions I am curious about.
After reading about the Northern Iowa troubles, it leads me to change my thought on our schedule. I am leaning on the FCS game and having the six home games. With that said, I wonder if we should look at taking a Nebraska game or Oklahoma and a big payout. It could be a win win for us. If we win the game and blow through the season, it will only make our light shine brighter. If we lose the game and have an above average season or good season, it might make our home game scheduling easier if teams think they can beat us again. Win Win. The bottom line, is we have to maintain fan support and teammaker support. We have to be able to bring in the right athletes and have success. If I am a Northern Iowa recruit and NDSU recruit, I am going to NDSU based on direction of shcool as a whole.
That goes for all the rest of you Summit and MVC teams. NDSU is where it is at baby.
Go Bison.
Play 2 fbs teams and prove to the naysayers that Ndsu can be fbs!
Also, ndsu basketball has really screwed the pooch by not capitilizing on the woody/ncaa run. saul shouldve went with miles, and a bigger named coach couldve came in or winona sts coach.
Saul is a good coach and I have heard the it was Saul, not Miles, who did the heavy lifting in recruiting Woody and the boys from that class. How can we possibly criticize Saul when you look at his record and the talent he has brought in when he has to recruit to the BSA. I honestly believe it has to be one of the 5 worst basketball arenas in Division I basketball. I don’t have actual numbers to back it up but honestly how could there be many worse that this place. I was very disappointed in the crowd at the IUPUI game on Thursday. I guess that when people say Fargo is a Football town it is true. We gotta get the Arena done, to give Saul a chance to really build something here. As we heard the UNI athletic director say “Basketball success is going to get us into the Missourri Valley for all sports. Right now the Jacks are sitting very good if that is what it takes. Look at their men’s and women’s basketball programs. The Valley has to be watching them. I don’t know when anyone is going to stop the NCAA tourney run their women are on. I honestly think the Jacks men are playing better than anyone in the Summit right now. NDSU needs to find a way to get the arena done giving Saul the facilities he needs to really recruit, win and draw the large crowds the Bison need to have a shot at getting into the Missouri Valley in all sports. Go Bison!
We have nothing to prove. Were National Champions
You dont build on a one and done.
Winning a national Championship and playing FBS teams have nothing to do with each other
The Winona coach?? What are you smoking? By the way Winona is in sticky waters of late with playing 10 or so games with an inelgible player this year….tranfer from UW Parkside (Where former Bison Basketball asst, Dave Williams is AD). Seems they may get eliminated from post season play….wish that rule would have been in play, back when UND played with Myron Allen!!!
Does anyone know how much profit ndsu football made last year (not counting the playoff games)?
Gene how about playing an FBS or fcs I guess IN THE METRODOME! On a friday night on FSN .
Good Idea!
not sure where NDSU-to-the-MVC came from. Great, Patty V says we’d do well, but as the UNI AD says, there’s no interest in football, its all about hoops, and we have a dump of a facility (for now) and a team that’s starting to be a couple years removed from its NCAA Tournament bid. we’re not a strong candidate for the MVC until A LOT of things change.
How much profit does that football team make in an average year (last year was a bit of an anomaly due to all the home playoff games)
Drew, last year was different from years past but going forward it is going to be the norm. We have more talent up and down our roster than anyone in the MVFC and probably FCS. Our coaching staff is the best in the country. There isn’t a better facility in all of FCS. We will win the title the next 3 years and than we will have to decide if it is time to go FBS.
The program is competitive. All of our olympic sports are doing well. Football is leading the way. Its starting to seem like moving up to Full Scholarship FBS ball is our fate. The program just keeps growing. You either stop it or let it grow to its natural size in this market. Same for BB. The Summit is perfect for us. We have a young team. We will get the new arena. In time the Summit will get better, the rivalries will be centered here in the midwest and the payouts will grow. All we need is a bigger football stadium, big enough for Big 12 ball.
Big 12…..wow….just wow…..
The day the Big 12 ever comes to Fart-n-Go with an invitation to join is the day Fargo becomes a winter vacation destination. Get a clue you little nanooks!
Reality isnt some of these peoples strong points.
As for money making in Basketball….you forget the revenue they can bring in for playing major Programs…..as in FBALL playing a pay day, basketball has potential to bring 300000 in body bag games. I am sure Saul does not want any part of that, but it is a fact. And we all know Bison Basketball will NEVER be a serious player in hoops, till it gets a new arena. You could make a case its the worst college facility in the state! And surely in the league!
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